5 thoughts on “Non-Player Character Theory vs Flat Earth (13-Jun-2019)

  • 19-July-2019 at 7:17 am
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    JLB, I find your thoughts on NPC’s very interesting, especially in regards to the lemmings interest in FE. I should mention as a manager by trade, I often find myself instructing my supervisors to feed employees different input if they want a different response from the employees. My statement usually goes something like “we know how employees are going to behave, we know what they will do, if you want a different response, if you want different behavior from employees, you need to elicit a different response by altering the input you feed to them” Unfortunately, it is like casting your pearls before swine, as my supervisors are too dull to fully comprehend what it is that I am saying. This has been a big shock for me to discover that somewhere along the line, these “supervisors” who wield positions of authority are nothing more than NPC’s themselves. A career in management has definitely provided me some insights into the NPC’s and for anyone doubting that these creatures are not like us, I can assure you NPC’s have the memory of a gold fish, they are utterly helpless creatures, who love their comfortable world of lies, and who will never be self reflective creatures. Anyways great content as always JLB

    • 20-July-2019 at 2:38 pm
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      Funny you should mention the pearls before swine. My favourite bible passage.

      Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

      If only I could have understood this basic idea a few years earlier. Would have saved myself a lot of time and energy.

      One reason why I find it easy to remember that passage is because 7 x 6 = 42. Matthew 7:6 is therefore Matthew Sync in my mind.

      I am sure that a career in management would be an eye-opening experience. I remember in my last ‘real’ job (first half of 2016) the management treated us all like idiots. They would use the exact same selling / persuasion techniques on us, their underlings, as they were training us to use on our sales calls with clients! And it worked! My lemming coworkers went along with it, either because they didn’t realise or they didn’t care.

      This is one of the reasons why I would recommend anybody ‘in between jobs’ to consider working in a sales call centre (i.e. telemarketing) even if only for a few months. What you will learn about people (customers, managers, yourself) in that period may be more valuable to you than the money you make while working there.

      At the time, I didn’t have the NPC framework at my disposal when looking around and watching what was going on in that office. But looking back now, it all makes so much sense. The managers would have their daily meeting together with the big boss, they would then start the day with their teams (regular schmos like me) with their pep talks (influenced if not outright dictated by the big boss), and then we would hit the phones, trying to pass on that positive energy to the customers and hopefully land some early sales, get a good start to the day. The daily script/code/energy would pass from one level to the next to the next, day in, day out.

      It was all sales, including what took place off the phones. Whereas in your case you were trying to convince your supervisors to tailor their messages to the individual staff, in our office the team leaders tended to give group-wide pep talks at the start of the day, and then if somebody was floundering on the phones, they would sit with them and get them back ‘on-script’. How do you convince a salesperson to get back on script? Sell them the benefits! ‘Do A and B will happen, say X and Y will happen’, etc.

      I can assure you NPC’s have the memory of a gold fish, they are utterly helpless creatures

      This was something Orwell wrote about in 1984. How the lemming masses have no memories. In one key scene, the idea is tied in with alcoholism: Winston visits a public bar and has a chat with a random dude. He asks the dude what he remembers about the past, the dude goes to respond, but then stops in his tracks, because there is no memory in his head.

      In the context of that scene, the poor memory can be put down to alcohol / substance use (and there is obviously something to this), but I think the broader message in the book is about how little the average person truly can remember. Those of us with strong memories, who can recall past events with relative ease, can spend our entire lives assuming that everybody has memories like we do. But they don’t. Most of them are hopeless.

  • 23-July-2019 at 11:02 pm
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    JLB,

    since our call on Sunday, I’ve been thinking a bit about the NPC meme. I’ve been contemplating why I have a reaction to the idea that I could be projecting my own inner life onto others. I had thought that it was perhaps my earlier Christian programming, or perhaps empathy.

    Both of those could be partly true. However, it may also be because of how I came to the brand of idealism that I use as a framework. Schopenhauer noted that he had an inner life of volitional states, thoughts etc. I think I am right in remembering that as part of his argument he assumes that all of mankind has this. He uses it as part of his argument for us all being ONE.

    But that’s just a circular argument.

    Also, as we’ve discussed, without a reverse Turing test, I can’t really make this additional step. The world is either My idea (that it is at least my idea of this I am as sure as I can be of anything), or perhaps it is the shared idea of a few amongst the many. That it is the shared idea of all mankind, I am starting to see that I have about as much evidence for this as I have for ancient history.

    My NPC scepticism is a bit like the accusations that were made about Hume (if he existed!) That he was a sceptic in the classroom but as soon as he left the classroom he forgot all of his scepticism.

    Am currently listening to you on TNG’s podcast. The points you made about other people not being able to remember how it was a few years ago and being able to realise what it might be like in a few years time = THIS. It’s even worse. In the UK I was getting accused of bigotry for arguing against gay marriage whilst it was still illegal! I was being told that I could not say certain things as it was against the law to discriminate whilst the law still discriminated.

  • 24-July-2019 at 6:46 pm
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    One of the major things I took away from our recent Call was the part about the Turing Test and language. How long have I been treating the other humans as though they are intelligent, merely because they have said the right words in the right order enough times to convince me they are intelligent?

    It is even worse than that. My natural state is to treat them as intelligent until they give obvious indications to the contrary. So they don’t even have to say the right words, they just have to not say the wrong words. As soon as somebody parrots SJW nonsense, for instance, I can dismiss them as a lemming. But so long as they avoid certain things, they can pass my unconscious Turing Test.

    Here’s the problem: the lemmings / NPCs all know the same words I do, even if they don’t have the same understanding of what those words mean. This came home to me while we were chatting (or, more accurately, while I was editing our chat). All they have to do say things back to me that make it seem as if they at least understand the basic idea I am exploring, and they get an emphatic pass mark on my unconscious Turing Test.

    In other words, even with modern technology, the kinds of bots you can see on places like reddit, it would be possible to program an input -> output system which could pass my Turing Test, so low has my bar been set for all of these years.

    ‘Yes I have thought about nuclear bombs, what evidence do we have they exist, I have only seen these bombs on TV’.

    Holy crap! This guy gets it!

    No, he doesn’t. He knows the words and can say them back to me. That is all. If he understood the significance of my questions concerning nuclear bombs, he wouldn’t need to me to raise the subject with him, he wouldn’t have been spending our finite time together telling me how he used to be able to lift X lbs in the gym, he would have been eager to discuss these (or similar) topics with me the moment he realised that he was speaking with a fellow skeptic.

    For so long my bar has been set so low when assessing the intelligence (for want of a better term) of my interlocutors, online and ‘in real life’. Only relatively recently, now that this site has reached something of a ‘critical mass’ (pardon the pun) of people who have done the work for themselves, has it become more clear to me just how little I have expected from other people, how low the pass mark was for my unconscious Turing Test.

    I keep saying ‘unconscious Turing Test’ because I had never given it much thought. It wasn’t a conscious process for the most part. Yes, I have on occasion thrown ideas out there to gauge interest / ability to discuss them, but not in a deliberate ‘see if these people have souls’ exercise. That is because in the past, I took it for granted that they all had souls, just that some were smarter than others.

    Now, with the NPC framework at my disposal, I can be conscious about it, and it seems to me that I ought to set the bar a lot higher than I was setting it in the past — because the lemmings all know the words, but this does not mean that they understand the significance. They can parrot my own ideas back to me like a programmed robot, like a Turing Test Chinese room, but so what? This says nothing of their understanding, which is the point in contention here.

    I still think it is cool in a way that you (and several others on the site) are reticent to consider your fellow humans anything but your ‘equals’ in terms of inherent nature / capacity for thought / etc. In many ways this seems preferable to thinking of the lemmings as mere robots, parts of the scripted reality’s furniture, like characters in Total Recall.

    And yet, I find myself wondering, how much more evidence do you need? How many utterly retarded and deluded responses do you have to hear from these morons before you start to accept the reality, grim as it may seem at first, that these creatures are nothing like yourself? That they cannot and will not think for themselves on even the most basic of matters?

    Let me repeat for the umpteenth time: these entities will tell you with a straight face that the following object went to the moon and housed two humans for hours.

    enter image description here

    This is why I sometimes find myself a little puzzled by one or two of the Members on the site who still complain about the lemmings in their lives. What exactly does one expect from the lemmings? Especially now that the NPC framework gives us another method by which to consider the lemmings, why would we spend any time lamenting the lemmings, let alone passing this frustration onto others?

    Of course I am guilty of this myself, although in a different way. I still sometimes treat the more popular / prominent ‘awake’ (conspiracy) lemmings as though they should know better. But outside of this website (and recently TNG’s website), every single outlet in the ACT realm is infested with lemmings, and I of all people should know to expect nothing intelligent to come from them.

    If any of the entities had any semblance of critical thought going on in their heads, the membership of JLB and TNG would not be the only people on earth questioning ‘ancient egypt’, ‘dinosaurs’, ‘V2 rockets’, ‘outer space’ etc etc etc. These Hoaxes are sitting ducks and the small audience on our sites are the only people even taking shots at them. Where is everybody else? What are they doing? Why can’t they see?

    Because they are lemmings. Non Player Characters. Dumb as rocks. Absolutely hopeless.

    And, praise Kek, praise the Kosmos, praise the Creator, the NPCs are quite happy being dumb as rocks. And that makes me happy. I want everybody to be happy ūüôā

  • 24-July-2019 at 7:50 pm
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    Your comment resonated with me.

    Holy crap! This guy gets it!

    No, he doesn’t. He knows the words and can say them back to me.

    Perhaps an element of the Turing test for PCs could be the self-awareness to wonder, “Am I just parroting back this person’s words.” I concern myself with this thought. When I was starting to engage with your history hoax material, I had this thought running in the back of my mind. Yes, I can understand it, it makes sense, but I had this feeling that if I was to talk to you about it, would I just be parroting back your ideas.

    And yet, I find myself wondering, how much more evidence do you need? How many utterly retarded and deluded responses do you have to hear from these morons before you start to accept the reality, grim as it may seem at first, that these creatures are nothing like yourself?

    I think that I may already treat others as NPCs but my problem may be consciously admitting it to myself (I want to think of my self as a good person and we’ve been programmed to believe that seeing all as potentially equal is the belief of a good person.)

    I say this because I pretty much gauge the level of conversation that I’m going to have with everyone I meet. It’s almost instinctive that I fulfill the maxim of not casting my pearls before the swine. Worst comes to the worst I just say that I don’t follow politics, or that it’s all a load of bollocks. However, if I’ve had a beer, I start to chuck stuff out but in an ironic sense and then make a funny face so no one can tell how serious I’m being.

    I didn’t think of it during the call but I’ve been noticing this in my dealings with people the last few weeks and then reflecting that I’ve done it my whole life. Once I’ve chatted with someone for a while, the old machine in me judges who I am dealing with, and my conversation finds the right level. It is one of the reasons that I find it very difficult talking with people for the first time. People who have known me for a while tell me how engaging I am to talk with etc. But until I can work out what type of person I’m dealing with I find conversations difficult. It can be tiring having to become a Jew for the Jews, and a Gentile for the Gentiles.

    Part of this may be man-pleasing, but part of it is that I am aware of what happens when I talk about something above somebody else’s level. TRIGGERED.

    I had a conversation a while back with an old friend who I don’t see that often nowadays. They asked me why I don’t socialise like I used to. I told them that if I have a couple of beers I starting talking about the things that I think about and people get upset. She told me that I shouldn’t be worried about what people think. She asked me to tell me about the things that I think about. I told yer. She got TRIGGERED. Told me I was impossible to talk to and stormed off home. Go figure.

    So in short, you’re right, complaining about the lemmings in one’s life is pointless. Just a matter of accepting their lemmingness and talking to them at the level you can. I usually go a smidgen above just so I can exert my superiority. It makes the lemmings endearing as long as they are just being themselves. It’s the lemming that doesn’t know that he is a lemming and wants to argue some ridiculous point. Then I can’t resist taking them apart.

    However, after thinking about existential subjects it can be nice just to chew the fat about the weather for a while with another farmhand.

    In short, if I analyze my actual dealing with people I seem to treat them like lemmings. The part of me that wants to see myself as a good person according to the programming, wants to hold on to the idea that they might not be just lemmings.

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